Cycling and Cars Can Mix

"mikecyc72usa" (mikecyc72usa) 04/18/2015 at 11:55 • Filed to: hit and run, cyclist, cycling, bikes and cars, share the road, common sense, good driving, road manners

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As most of you may know, I live in Austin, TX. I am originally from Rhinebeck and Kingston, NY. Different cultures, different driving styles, different on many levels. Not only am I rabid car enthusiast, I am also a long time cyclist. That’s right, I’m one of those spandex wearing, leg shaving guys on a bike worth more than any of my cars. Yet what does this mean?

In the Austin area as well as others around the country, many cyclists have been the victims of aggressive drivers. Hit and runs, buzzing, and blatant running over of cyclists are either on the rise, or being reported more with backing documentation. (Think bike mounted GoPro cameras.) Before those of you who drive and not ride begin voicing your dissent, hear me out. There is more than enough blame to go around, and there are idiots on each side of the car exterior. So listen up.

First, I’m going to address this issue from the perspective of a cyclist who raced for 22 years against the likes of Hincapie, Armstrong, Julich, Phinney, Hampsten, et al plus lots of today’s young guns. Since 1989 I’ve covered over 300,000 miles by bike, won races, crashed, been on podiums, trained at the Olympic Training Centers, and worked in the bike industry. To get a visual, here’s a shot of me racing in 2010, my last full year of competition. Credit goes to Kevin Saunders, a pro photog out of San Antonio.

To say I’ve ridden in all conditions on all kinds of roads all over the place is an understatement. So with all that experience, this is what I, a cyclist experience and see.

Drivers view us as a pest sometime. If they bother to see us at all. A favorite of mine is the driver who MUST pass me at all costs, risking all of us on the road. Even better is 45 feet ahead they want to turn right, and promptly cut me off. IF I raise my voice, they usually flip me off. Nice.

Another great behavior is I’ll be rolling along on a twisty, rural road with limited sight distances. Rare is the driver who will wait until it’s safe to pass. Heck, I usually wave them by as soon as possible, but for most that three to seven second delay is far too long. In upstate NY a guy in a pickup rushed by me around a very tight blind turn on a 30 mph mountain road, and he hit another car head on 100 feet further. Think about that. Was it worth it?

There is also outright aggression towards cyclists. I’ve had items thrown at me, been hit by rearview mirrors, been slapped on the side by passengers, spit upon, as well as the usual heckling. I know of too many people who have been hit and literally left for dead. What type of people/drivers do these things? Why is it ok to cut us off, to yell at us to get off the road, etc? Would you, as a driver, do these things to another motorist? Driving is a privilege, and it has serious consequences. In a car, we have crumple zones, airbags, lots of protection in that safety cage. On a bike, our crumple zones are our bodies.

All cyclists ask for is consideration and respect, like any other road users. Don’t cut us off, don’t hit us, don’t leave us for dead if you do. Learn your state and local laws. For example, in Austin you have to give three feet between you and the cyclist when passing them in a car, 5 in a large truck. A small amount of common sense as drivers can avoid many many problems. The next time you are waiting to pass a cyclist or a group of them, ask yourself how much time will you save if you rush passing them vs wait until it’s safe?

So, you’ve heard my view from the handlebars. Now for my view from behind the wheel. Just like there are inconsiderate drivers, there are inconsiderate cyclists. When I drive, I cringe when I see cyclists run stop signs, red lights, etc. So here is my advice to cyclists. Ride like you’re on a motorcycle. Let me explain.

DON’T run traffic lights. PERIOD. Stop at stop signs. Blowing through them is a risk to you, and what about the car you didn’t see? Now you are hurt, dead, or shaken up, and that driver will tell the world about the jerk cyclist. Thanks for tainting the public. Also, don’t lane split, or lane creep. It’s just bad form.

Let’s look at it this way: I’m a driver, and it’s busy on the streets. It took me a while to get by you safely, and I made sure to not run you over and give you space. A bit up the road, a traffic light is red. Now what do all of us see who just took pains to not run you over? You creeping up between lanes or alongside us to the front of the line! Seriously? When you arrive at a traffic light, get behind the last vehicle in line. Just like a motorcycle would.

Establish your position in the center of the lane. Be ready to roll with traffic, get up to a speed you are comfortable with, and then move over as far as practicable in the lane to let people by. You’ll be amazed how much drivers will respect your space and appreciate it. Also, this way you are riding predictably. Drivers like that. It makes it easier to pass safely.

Also, please be courteous on group rides. When a vehicle approaches from behind, move over, thin out, make room. Wave to drivers waiting for you to ride by, and to kids, police, as well. Like it or not, as a cyclist you need to be an ambassador of the sport. Don’t yell, throw things, or block the lanes. I personally disapprove of critical mass rides, but that is just my personal opinion.

There is room and time for all of us to not have conflicts. Mutual respect, adherence to the rules, and some common sense and courtesy will go a long way. As a driver, what will a minute or two of delay really cost you in the big picture? As a cyclist, what will a wave, being considerate, and being a good ambassador cost you? Now, what will the opposite behaviors cost all of us?

RallyWrench > mikecyc72usa 04/18/2015 at 18:14

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I have but one star to give. Well put, I’m also an avid cyclist & bike enthusiast.

Greasemonkey > mikecyc72usa 04/18/2015 at 20:06

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Just like there are inconsiderate drivers, there are inconsiderate cyclists. When I drive, I cringe when I see cyclists run stop signs, red lights, etc.

It is really disappointing to see some cyclists thinking they can do whatever they want. Is that Strava KOM really worth the risk?

I like your point about driving like a motorcyclist.

mikecyc72usa > Greasemonkey 04/18/2015 at 22:09

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Hipsters and Strava Queens....ugh.

HG_Pennypacker > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 12:59

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You guys are a pest. Usually with bad, entitled attitudes to boot. The world hates you for a reason. There, I’ve said it.

True > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:03

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Good piece.

Highly predictable comments to follow.

DonKeybals > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:04

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I agree with you 100%. I’m not a hardcore cyclist like you (mountain biking, mostly for fun, but I enjoy riding every chance I get, even if I’m going to the farmer’s market). I see some real jackass behavior from a lot of drivers.

Even if I don’t ride, I would not actively get into it with a bike. Think about this the next time you’re in a car. Even if you’re right, and the guy on the bike is an asshole, there’s no way he can win when you purposely slam into him. And really, what gives you the right to play god by trying to hurt someone in a car?! It’s a cowardly thing to do. Do you want to be viewed by society as a man, or a spineless coward?

Also, accidents happen, from minor to major. If you do hit a cyclist, stop and render aid. That someone you left for dead is someone’s husband, wife, dad, mother, or sibling. Think about that before you leave the scene.

Christopheroni > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:10

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This is why I ride in the woods.

Oran J Sands III > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:10

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You’re not alone. I’ve been hooning since 1968 and riding/racing and commuting by bike since ‘72. A past president/RE of my SCCA region and Board member of IndyCog, the cycling advocacy group here in Indy. I would agree with everything you’ve said and would emphasize the taken the center of the lane. Riding far to the right simply invites close passes by motorists that don’t want to cross the center line. I also support riding as if I was a car/motorbike. In fact I urge motorists to also drive as if I was a car. Change lanes to pass, don’t tailgate etc. It worlks out for both of us. And to those cyclists that want to misbehave I say the same thing as I would to a misbehaving motorist, “Can’t wait another 30 seconds?”

bob and john > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:11

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heheheh. I do all three. drive, cycle and motorcycle. I get your points, but I have to admit I actually lanesplit on my motorcycle...difference is I dont keep traffic upw hen I leave the light

Good article. Getting sick and tired of snobs giving cyclists a bad name.

tapzz > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:12

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When you arrive at a traffic light, get behind the last vehicle in line.

Just a word of warning for those in the UK, and possibly elsewhere in Europe: this may be illegal if there is an advance stop box. You’re liable to get fined if you don’t filter forward and make use of the ASB.

The reason is that the largest number of fatal accidents for cyclists have been due to motor vehicles (particularly large trucks) accelerating away when traffic lights turn green and then turning and crushing cyclists they didn’t see.

WanderingWheels22 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:16

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Nice piece. There are plenty of annoying cyclists out there, I have ranted about them before around here and battled in, CA, Chicago and DC (I have never hit or even felt I endangered, anyone, FYI). The horn conversation I had with another guy around here was a good chuckle.

I do not however agree with your sentiment on lane splitting or “creeping.” Its an efficient use of space. I would have never done it before living in CA, but now I will even do it on motorcycles in other states if I feel vulnerable and want to get away from cars, or am just pressed for time (folks can be aggressive with the motorcycles just like the pedal bikes).

Moving over, trying to keep things flowing, not making me cringe at every residential stop sign, that’s courtesy and I am pleasantly surprised when it happens after I come up on a cyclist, but I am generally still surprised these days. I admit many times the disregard that many in the cycling community have annoys the hell out of me, but lane splitting is fine in my book. Its a road, not a racetrack, nobody is “cheating”- you just can’t use the space, and a narrow vehicle can. Logical, in my book anyway.

Bearded Bastard > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:19

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the biggest issue is that municipalities seem to think bike designated lanes will solve anything.

a bike is a vehicle, it is a bicyclists right to his car sized space in the lane, the same as a motorcycle, car, truck or bus. if a bike is in front of you, you slow down, and wait for room to pass, or you just change lanes and pass. if you want to half ass lane change thats fine, as long as room is made. but bikers need to change lanes, and make turns, just the same as everyone else. and just like everyone else, they need to obey signs, like you point out yourself.

the big problem with bike lanes, is that they foster the idea that bikes are only supposed to be on the shoulder, and no where else. and over time, this idea will turn into behavior, and any biker making a left turn, thus being outside the right shoulder bike lane, will be open to the scorn of every driver passing by, causing more and more confusion.

a point that resonates with me is at the end “mutual respect, adherence to the law.”

the law is very adamant about bicycles being a vehicle. yet driver training does nothing about it. lack of training for drivers, lack of training about bicyclists, just bad training all around.

ZeGerman > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:22

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Thank you for writing this! As a lifelong car enthusiast and bike commuter, I agree with all of your points. We simply must learn to coexist. I see plenty of bad behavior from motorists, but I also see tons of bad behavior from other cyclists. One of my biggest peeves is when cyclists seem to feel that no rules apply to them.

dannymac63 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:25

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A small amount of common sense as drivers can avoid many many problems.

Sorry, I find it difficult to take advice on common sense from an adult playing games on public roadways with 2-4 ton vehicles.

Disclaimer: I have no problem with the bicycle as a mode of transportation, just the sport of cycling when conducted on public roadways.

CharlieKellyKingofTheRats > WanderingWheels22 04/19/2015 at 13:26

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Lanesplitting is fine in a motorcycle, but a shit thing to do in a bike (unless traffic is literally stopped forever). If a bicycle jumps to the front, all the cars have to leapfrog them again. If a motorcycle does it, this doesn't happen.

Dikembe Mutombo > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:27

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Very well said. Plenty of dicks whether on 2 wheels or 4. Though I disagree with you on some minor points, ultimately for me your point about being respectful strikes true.

Mazer > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:28

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I too live in Austin. I don’t mind the bikers. They are EVERYWHERE on the street, and for the most part that is OK. The problem to me is when the idiots come out and decide it’s a great idea to ride on a 70 mph road with barely enough room for cars, let alone adding in bikes. We have enough retarded drivers here in Austin without having to throw in a bike to the mix.

There are tons of awesome spots to ride your bike here. If you are a biker, do us all a favor and pick one of them instead of somewhere that puts you at risk. Not only is it unsafe, I feel it’s unfair to put drivers in a situation they might end up living with and regretting the rest of their lives.

In the same token - drivers of cars need to cut bikers a break on roads designed with them in mind.

Haze > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:30

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You personally disapprove of critical mass rides, but that is just your personal opinion?

I am not you. I have never raced or shaved my legs, and I have only started wearing lycra in the past ten years or so, but I have been riding for over 30 years and have about 75,000 miles on bikes some of which was on multiple tours of Europe. I like bike touring, which I think makes me more road law conscious than you. I applaud your attempt to make the current crop of pseudo racers banging down the asphalt these days aware of the fact that they are on public roads and not in a closed road race, but you are far too kind to them. When I started riding in the eighties I was informed, and as a driver I think that this is right, the number of bikes it takes to block a car from passing is ... two. That’s all it takes. Touring I was always told that bikes should be a minimum 100 feet apart to allow the free flow of traffic, and it works. That is how drivers and bikers traditionally have coexisted on the roads. Group rides, even pair riding is an abuse of the road system. Bicycling used to be an individual sport. I might meet up with a group, and have always toured in groups, but it was more of a meet in the morning, agree where to end, and everyone rides their own ride sort of thing. I have never ridden next to another person, and when people have tried to ride next to me, I politely give them the brush off.

As for the rest of your article, it should go without saying that bicyclists obey the same road laws as all other vehicles. Where I live in Pennsylvania, the vehicle code applies equally to motorized and non-motorized vehicles. Stop lights and signs are there for a reason, and the sidewalks are for walking on not riding. It is really not that big of a deal to dismount and walk the bike occasionally if the situation warrants it.

As a war story, I once saw a guy on a fixie ride through a red light (not as it had changed. It was just red. We were all sitting and waiting for our turn to go) at a four lane road interchange, directly into traffic, which caused one car to crash into a concrete barrier, and another car to end up on the grass median to avoid hitting this ass, and all he did was flip them off and keep riding.

Whereas my natural inclination is to side with cyclists, I believe the riders are more at fault now than the drivers, at least where I live outside of Philadelphia. Riding used to have respect for the road, and I see less and less of that with people who have entered the sport in the past ten years. For me the culture of cycling has taken a very negative turn.

WanderingWheels22 > CharlieKellyKingofTheRats 04/19/2015 at 13:31

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That is a point, accel is much higher to step it out on even the smallest motorcycles but I guess I am assuming that we’re in an urban area, which the lower speeds and side parking areas can help out with passing later. I share the pet peeve of the 31 inch wide vehicle trying to use a whole lane and making passing impossible and hazardous like I am sensing you do.

I dunno, situation dictates, but I still feel like filtering/creeping/lane splitting is appropriate many times. I don’t get bothered like I once did before CA by people “getting ahead” while I am stuck behind the Prii.

PardonMyFlemish16 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:32

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There will never be peace across vehicle types sharing the road. As a cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver I have seen it all as well. Ultimately people in cars will never cecede to anyone in/on anything less safe than them as they have nothing to lose. Not to mention I really do think there is a hint of jealousy - the freedom of the maneuverability of a two wheeled vehicle, and with bicycles the very demonstration of physical fitness and initiative some fat miserable slob in a car can’t begin to understand.

My rule of thumb is to only ride on roads where speed differentials are generally no more than 20 MPH. Beyond that, it’s just too fucking close. I bought a cycling trainer but now that I’m in a more bike friendly area I think I will start hitting the road again.

Be safe out there guys.

JuniorSamplesJr. > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:33

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Like it or not, as a cyclist you need to be an ambassador of the sport.

Yes. Yes. A thousand time yes. I commute daily by bicycle and hate dumbasses who ignore the rules of the road as much as the angry commenters who are about to join this thread (trust me, they’re coming.)

There are terrible drivers. There are terrible cyclists. Painting either group with a wide brush makes one a terrible thinker.

Haze > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:33

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And what I see around where I live are aged baby boomers getting into the sport with lots of money and BIG group rides causing all sorts of trouble.

word-is-bond > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:35

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I’m not nearly as qualified as Mr. MikeCyc, but I’m still unconvinced by the need to stop at every red light and stop sign, when I’m on my bicycle. I ride a road bike around Manhattan and Brooklyn, and I take my safety pretty seriously, but for me that means being hyper vigilant, expecting to be ignored and erring on the side of caution. If I come up to a red light or stop sign, I expect to have to stop, but visibility is also obviously incredibly good on a bike, and I can slow down to walking pace, so if it’s obviously safe to continue through the light or stop sign, I do. Why wouldn’t I? As a car at a 4-way stop, I fully expect a cyclist to continue without stopping, just as I would wait for a pedestrian to cross the street.

Maybe riding in New York is just different though. It would be insane to wait behind traffic at a light, instead of keeping to the “lane” between parked cars and traffic. One thing that does drive me crazy about riding in New York is cyclists who ride the wrong way on one way streets. You’re already invisible to most drivers and now you’re coming from somewhere unexpected! Even as someone who thinks about cyclists safety when driving, I’ve nearly run into wrong-way cyclists.

AntiLag > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:36

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When cyclists block the street that I, and many others, have to use in order to get to work in morning, who’s speed limit is 40 MPH, and that has no bike lane, and is very narrow to begin with, and force us all to drive 5-10 mph for a three mile stretch, I get mad. Fuck you guys. I don’t care if you ‘like the hills on that road’. Find another one. Nobody commutes to work in a neon Lycra suit in Los Angeles. You force people to choose between being late to work, or endangering ourselves and breaking the law by driving into oncoming traffic.

myTotaledTahoe > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:37

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You creeping up between lanes or alongside us to the front of the line! Seriously? When you arrive at a traffic light, get behind the last vehicle in line. Just like a motorcycle would.

You absolutely have to be joking.

Great, let me get murdered by a clueless driver instead of coasting to the front of the intersection. Motorcyclists lane split here in Cali just fine

dogisbadob > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:38

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cool handlebars

aismo > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:39

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I’ve been hit by a few cars to the point that it’s unavoidable and I don’t care, I just hope I don’t get killed by one someday. Once was in a bike lane, and I had Goodyear patterns burned into my arm. It sucks but all you can do is ride as safe as possible in safe locations. And some idiot may still kill you, so try mountain biking.

LongbowMkII > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:42

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*attempted post of Always Sunny bike .gif*

mikecyc72usa > tapzz 04/19/2015 at 13:44

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Good to know. I only know of stateside laws, and those also vary quite a bit.

James > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:44

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Here in the UK, it befuddles me that drivers look down on cyclists as two wheeled terrorists with no respect for or understanding of drivers.

But look again, and you’ll see that most MAMILs and MAWILs are riding bikes worth as much as £7000, and wearing high end sports wear worth £300-500 at any one time. It stands to reason that if a weekend cyclist is in a position to afford this particular past time, they’re likely also have a decent car or two in the driveway as well.

That said, I’d welcome any Jalopnik readers who like vehicles with either two or four wheels to come for a ride here in East Anglia, where drivers are 99.9% respectful of cyclists’ particular needs on the road. Oh, and there’s not many hills either ;)

mikecyc72usa > dogisbadob 04/19/2015 at 13:44

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Those colors for cancer awareness.

flyingstitch > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:49

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Yes, yes, yes about the critical mass rides. Example: In my town there is a 1.5-mile stretch of country road—all of it twisting, narrow, blind curves, moguls, you name it. It’s also steep. Hardcore cyclists love to tackle that hill, but it is SLOW going up. Get several cyclists in a row, and it is impossible to pass them safely as they do—I don’t even know—5 mph, tops? Just because you can, and you want to, doesn’t mean you should. I have never succumbed to road rage, but that might get me close.

golferyo > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:55

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What road bike is that?

vc-10 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:57

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I mostly agree. Here in the UK it’s expected for cyclists to slip past waiting cars at the lights, and there is very often a short section of bike lane marked off on the left leading to the bike box*. The idea is that if someone doesn’t stop at the lights, you want the cyclists to be out of the way, either to the left or in the bike box. If someone rear-ends me when I’m in the car, then I’ll get some nasty whiplash, but I’ll survive. The same would not apply if I were crushed between two cars when I’m on my bike.

However, the rest of ‘riding like a motorcyclist’ I totally agree with. If the road is narrow, I go in the middle of the lane. I don’t jump reds, I use my lights, I always wear a helmet.

*To those who stop in, or even past, the bike box, screw you. Learn the rules of the road. No different from idiot cyclists blowing through reds.

ThePinnacle > AntiLag 04/19/2015 at 13:58

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Plenty of people commute in lycra, I used to, every day. 21 miles one way. And I live a little bit south of L.A.. Believe it or not, there are things that exist outside of your small sphere.
I’ve been driving (and racing cars too) for 20 years and I have never once been held up by cyclists to any appreciable degree. Given that I do both, I always laugh at people making up stories about cyclists as if I’ve never driven a car.
People that don’t ride merely exaggerate whatever delays they’ve conjured up in their head because being delayed by anything other than other cars is actually really rare. So it stands out. So that 5 second passing maneuver around a cyclist seems like an eternity for you. Nevermind the fact that you sped right up and ended up exactly where you were had no cyclist been there. You also have stricken from memory the 100+ slow moving drivers that also held you up on the same commute.
In my experience, people that complain about cyclists are usually really crappy drivers. Any situation presented to them that forces them to shut off “auto pilot” fills them with anxiety and frustration.

golferyo > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 13:58

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Amen brother. I am also an avid cyclist and I ride like I am on a motorcycle as well.

gearboxtrouble > Bearded Bastard 04/19/2015 at 13:58

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The problem with this view is that it would assume the bike is able to keep to the minimum speed limit for that road. It's usually not. If you want to be treated just like a car you can't pick and choose what rules of the road you follow. Bike lanes are a sensible compromise. They keep traffic moving and keep pedestrians safe from bikes,

dogisbadob > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:00

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Well you gotta remember, BMW does make bicycles

ohio991 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:01

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or you know bike paths

wheres theres no cars

wlb50 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:03

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You covered everything except the act that pisses of motorists the most - a group of cyclists taking up the lane who won’t let cars pass. A few years ago there was a “swarm” up in the CA foothills - gold rush country. A cyclist got into a “finger war” with the driver of a semi and guess who won.

Yes, there are jerks on both sides. One of the writers from chicagoboyz.net lives in Miami and talks about deliberate “swarms” of cyclists - who meet - 100s of them - and deliberately take over the downtown streets. Take some motorist who barely has control of his faculties as it is and you are looking at a potential disaster.

You want to talk cycle country where motorists and cyclists co-exist look at Davis, CA.

I have led my car club - 20 cars and more - on the back roads outside and we get along fine. You’ll see a caravan of 20 Mercedes waiting patiently for a time when we can get into the opposing lane with plenty of room for the cyclists - the cyclists in turn go single file so we are all considerate of each other.

Waves - with all fingers - are exchanged....

Whenever you are out this way try cycling out from Russell Blvd (old US 40) through Putah Creek Road and Hwy 116 - a beautiful road going though Calistoga and all the way to the coast at Bodega Bay.

On a nice weekend you will see cyclists 80 miles from ...anywhere just having fun and enjoying the road like the motorists.

They can co-exist but consideration for the other has to exist - on both sides.

grocerystorebar > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:04

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A++. if everyone would just chill the hell out and stop getting pissed at “those people” and start actually paying attention to what is going on around them and how they’re AFFECTING OTHERS, then the roads would be a happy place for everyone. of course, the assholes are going to continue to be assholes because they are bad people on the inside (and they should feel bad!) so you can’t really do anything to them other than be really nice and wait for them to pass this mortal coil.

i mean, that really applies to the whole world, doesn’t it?

personal background/credentials: 7-day a week bike road/mtb/cx/commuter; 2x SBR SCCA FSP series winner and 15K/year driver; human being

Bosshog2 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:05

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Do cyclists have insurance like a car?

ThePinnacle > Haze 04/19/2015 at 14:06

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You once saw a cyclist run a red light and cause a crash? Once?
That’s amazing. I’ve seen people in cars do that countless times. In fact, I see people in cars breaking traffic laws every single day.
Arguments about people on bikes breaking laws would be legitimate if people in cars obeyed the law which is such a preposterous notion that it literally makes me want to laugh out loud.
The absurdity of this argument is such that it boggles my mind that it even exists. Quite literally no one in cars obeys traffic law. And when that law broken results in a crash, you are talking about a ~4000 lb projectile hitting something. Believe it or not, this results in over 30,000 deaths a year. That’s a fucking slaughter. How many people on 20 lb bikes kill other people in the same time frame? lol

Basically it’s like someone waving a loaded gun around, finger on the trigger, lecturing unarmed people about gun safety.

Lopoetve > CharlieKellyKingofTheRats 04/19/2015 at 14:08

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This. If it took me a minute to find a safe place to pass you (because I DO ride too), and now I have to do it again? that's just being a pain.

mikecyc72usa > Haze 04/19/2015 at 14:08

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There is some responsibility as a group ride leader. I’ve lead many and had strict rules on behavior, road etiquette, etc. Mess up and get a talking to, mess up again and you were barred from the group.

mikecyc72usa > flyingstitch 04/19/2015 at 14:10

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I agree, if that road is awesome, either find a way to go up it when traffic is minimal, or wait until you are faster at climbing.

gearboxtrouble > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:10

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A bigger issue that needs to be mentioned is lighting. I see plenty of cyclists here that do not feel the need to have both front and rear lights. Thats beyond stupid and you're just asking to be in an accident if you do that.

mikecyc72usa > dogisbadob 04/19/2015 at 14:10

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So dud Cadillac, Hummer, Jeep...

G42dog > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:13

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Arterials/highways are horrible for mixed use. And painting bike lanes on them makes it even worse, as now there’s a false sense of safety. Physical barriers between roads and bike lanes are incredibly effective. In Northern Germany, where I grew up, the vast majority of kids ride their bikes to school, along busy roads. Hardly anybody wears a helmet. Accidents are rare. That’s because bike paths are separated from the road. Most smallish highways between towns have a bike path, separate from the road way. It makes for very safe and efficient riding. Yes, it results in slightly narrower roads. But then you have tons of people on bikes and not driving, so those roads are less congested.

LoremIpsum010101 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:13

0

"Ride like a motorcyclist" Yes!

"Don't lane split" But, you said..

I feel much, much safer both on my bicycle and my motorcycle lanesplitting in urban traffic.

bammerburn > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:14

0

TIL slowing down as one approaches intersections, yielding & looking both ways, and then proceeding through when the coast is definitely clear = “blowing red lights / stop signs.”

Just so you know - rules of the road are automobile-centric. Many such rules are absurd when applied to other modes of transport (motorcycles, bicycles, etc). Bicyclists operate rationally on the road, which sadly brings forth anger from car drivers. Don’t get angry when they simply don’t follow your onerous car-centric rules.

mikecyc72usa > ThePinnacle 04/19/2015 at 14:15

2

Sure cars break laws. Well, drivers, actually. But if you do a proportional look, a higher number of cyclists vs drivers run red lights and stop signs, for example. If you want respect on the road while cycling, what’s so hard about stopping for lights? If you run lights on your bike, do you also run them in tour car? Running a light on a bike is like that gun instructor pontificating while pointing the end of his barrel at his head with the finger on the trigger.

ThePinnacle > ZeGerman 04/19/2015 at 14:18

7

But motorists do feel the rules apply to them? Have you ever actually paid attention to how people drive? Not a single person on the road obeys the law. And those laws were written with cars in mind. And you want say that cyclists are a problem? The rules were written for cars. If you follow those rules religiously , you are going to end up dead.
As a motorist of 20 years, and a competitive cyclist for the same amount of time, I can tell you I do whatever it takes to keep me safe. Rules be damned. If that means it inconveniences some fat ass for 5 seconds, then so be it. My life is worth more than your 5 seconds of convenience. This philosophy has kept me safe for the past 20 years and I’m not changing it.

The sooner we can toss this “rules of the road” argument in the trash, the better. There isn’t a single motorist alive that can legitimately lecture me on following the law.

Chaos-cascade > WanderingWheels22 04/19/2015 at 14:18

0

x2. Riding to work in San Francisco by bike shaved 45 minutes off my commute by car by lanespliting in Christmas season. (Sometimes in heavy rain I would drive and almost always regret it.) Most of the time downtown it’s not like your passing a car that is ever going to pass you again because the sprint between lights leaves you with straight shot while everybody else has a car in front of them.

mikecyc72usa > gearboxtrouble 04/19/2015 at 14:19

4

Sure, my view is skewed by the fact I used to motorpace and could easily ride over 30mph alone on the road for extended periods. However, your argument about bikes not belonging on the road except where bike lanes are is off. What about farm equipment? Horses? Every state recognizes bikes as having the right to be on the roads.

mikecyc72usa > gearboxtrouble 04/19/2015 at 14:23

0

If I ride near dusk or dawn, I use front and rear lights. Again, common sense but many dont.

ThePinnacle > word-is-bond 04/19/2015 at 14:23

1

I agree. The rules concerning stops were written with cars in mind. Motorists have to exert no effort to accelerate from stops and such. Cyclists do. I find that in places with lots of stops, if I come to a complete stop every time, I expose myself to far more danger than if I continue through at a safe pace treating these stops as yields.
Stopping every time presents the situation where more cars are forced to pass me as a much slower moving vehicle and so the chances of an idiot hitting me are greater.

JuniorSamplesJr. > gearboxtrouble 04/19/2015 at 14:23

3

The vast majority of road do not have minimum speed limits. The road that do have a minimum don’t allow bicycles (or pedestrians, or horse-drawn carriages) anyway. You’re describing a scenario that doesn’t exist.

mikecyc72usa > golferyo 04/19/2015 at 14:24

0

Specialized S Works E5.

mikecyc72usa > ohio991 04/19/2015 at 14:26

4

Well if they exist, they can be useful. But paved paths tend to get overrun by runners, dog walkers, roller bladers, and it’s not the safest for anyone due to closing speeds in those instances.

mikecyc72usa > Bosshog2 04/19/2015 at 14:27

0

Typically not. Bikes are covered by homeowners policies, which also usually have liability coverage which may or may not apply.

mikecyc72usa > HG_Pennypacker 04/19/2015 at 14:28

8

Glad you got that off your chest.

Chaos-cascade > CharlieKellyKingofTheRats 04/19/2015 at 14:29

0

Depends on the speed limit and traffic. A bike is quicker off the line and if traffic is only moving 10-20mph, a bike can easily outpace a car. Rush hours in downtown San Francisco a bike taking up a whole lane by not splitting lanes is just a horrible idea and use of space. Like they say it is ‘one less car’ but if you want them taking up a whole lane it might as well be a car.

R W > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:33

1

Even better is 45 feet ahead they want to turn right, and promptly cut me off. IF I raise my voice, they usually flip me off. Nice.

You need to get out of the way, and you need to pass on the left.

ThePinnacle > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:34

1

That might be true, but then again, more people in cars speed. It’s about convenience and ease. It’s much more convenient for a cyclist to treat intersections as Yields because it requires effort to accelerate a bicycle, it requires no human effort to accelerate a car.
This is why stopping in a car is much less of a big deal, and also why speeding is so ubiquitous. That said, I rarely ever see anyone in a car come to a complete stop at stop signs or turning right on red lights.
I stop at red lights or stop signs when it makes sense from a safety and public relations perspective. As a fellow former racer, you should recognize the fact that if you safely treated stop signs as yield signs, you will have a lot less cars passing you on a given ride. We ride fast enough that the difference is like half as many cars. That’s half as many people that are potentially out to run your ass over.
IMO the law should be written that bicyclists can treat stop signs as yield signs. That would recognize the fact we accelerate slower, are more engaged with the act of “driving”, only put ourselves at risk, and are safer when we can average higher speeds.

Ineedaburner > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:35

1

Cyclists need to obey the rules of the road.

To be clear, I always, ALWAYS defer to cyclists just because of safety disparity. But here (a fairly bike friendly city), the vast majority of cyclists are assholes. They rarely signal. They don’t stop at stop signs. They routinely transition from sidewalks to roads without even pausing or looking. They ride against traffic. They don’t yield or even consider allowing themselves to be overtaken. Traffic lights are completely optional things.

The worst offenders are the “real” cyclists. They guys on carbon frame, campangnolo adorned, $10k bikes. Next worse is the oblivious college student. They’re just dumb as opposed to the asshole serious cyclists.

The guy going to work with is kid in a Burley is so much better. They have a flag and the right amount of reflectors. They always use hand signals and respect the two ton killing machines all around them.

SirPoopyPants > wlb50 04/19/2015 at 14:36

6

Those “critical mass” fucktards can pick a fire and die in it. Few years back saw them block an ambulance from getting through an intersection and then get butthurt when the cops showed up.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:39

3

Cars and cyclists already do coexist just fine most of the time. For perfection to be attained, you just need to get rid of the “me first” aggressive and impatient car/truck drivers and then also get rid of the “me first” aggressive Lance-Armstrong-wannabe cyclists.

As if that’s ever gonna happen...

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Haze 04/19/2015 at 14:40

7

As a some-of-the-time cyclist, I find it lame how some feel the need to turn cycling into a big lifestyle and status thing.

Fluffy6079 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:46

1

Ugh...horses on the roads. I hate people who do this an allow the horses to crap everywhere, leaving a trail of poo-pellets that cars may drive through. And while I realize farming is very very important, I seriously hate their low-speed, often large machines on the road. At least most cyclists, the ones I've encountered anyway, will try to get out of the way when possible.

Lahjik > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 14:58

2

As a long-time and avid driver plus a mixed-use cyclist (I did it for recreation, I toured and I even commuted a bit) I agree. Cyclists have a responsibility to fit in and obey traffic laws and motorists have an added responsibility to not maim and/or kill riders. The issue I’ve run into, all too often, is that ANY imposition on the average driver makes them go all Diego Montoya. It’s bad enough here in San Antonio that I’ve considered combining the local’s love of Open-Carry-Firearms with riding and just hit the road with a Bushmaster strapped to my back just to see if that helps.

tapzz > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:01

1

I just had a look at the wikipedia article on advanced stop boxes / lines / bike boxes , and it seems that there are some in Toronto, Portland and New York city as well, which make me wonder how someone could use those if it isn’t also legal to filter forward.

I take your point about the variability of traffic regulation, though; I can imagine those could even be different between NYC and upstate...

HG_Pennypacker > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:02

1

Me and thousands upon thousands of other drivers. Who outnumber bike geeks 1000’s to 1 and who the roads were actually built for. But who’s counting? You sound one of the more reasonable ones, but compared to what?

RodR > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:12

1

Great piece! I worked in Austin the last 25 years. I also am part of a significant sized non-profit that puts on a large bike ride each Spring in the Austin area. I have many friends in the cycling community. I cannot count the times over the last 10-15 years while driving to work I saw multiple cyclists blow through a 4 way stop at the intersection of North Loop and Grover near the Texas Department of Health. This seemed to happen on a daily basis. Often it would be a group with University of Texas cycling jerseys. Sometimes just individuals. There were many close calls there and I don’t doubt a few accidents. I only saw one and while the rider went to the hospital he was released the next day with cuts and bruises and a concussion. This is not the only place I saw this but it was consistent for many years at that intersection. I usually turned left in front of the Texas Department of Health and I was very conscious to watch for cyclists. I’ve had them blow through on both sides while I was stopped with my left turn signal on. Most of the riders I saw doing this were young guys. No surprise there.

I don’t doubt there are many idiot drivers out there. I’m not a cyclist so I haven’t seen that side of it. The common factor here is idiots. Idiot drivers and idiot cyclists. I guess the difference is that the cyclists are much more vulnerable. As you suggest, a good dose of sanity (and maturity) is needed from both sides. There are roads around Austin that I would not consider safe for cyclists. I am all in favor of cycling and additional bike lanes and such, but use some common sense. Just because you CAN ride a certain stretch of road doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

ThePinnacle > HG_Pennypacker 04/19/2015 at 15:14

11

Wrong. The roads were built for bikes. And if it weren’t for cyclists lobbying for good roads, the automobile might have not taken off as it did. Learn some history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Road…

http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/about/

If anyone has an entitlement mentality it is you. You seem to think that the road exists for you and your chosen method of transportation. Anything that might intrude on the maximum level of convenience enjoyed by you is a threat.
Sorry to say, you do not own the road.
PS cyclists also drive. I’ve been driving, riding, and racing cars and bikes for 20 years. Your complaints are all made up bullshit that I’ve never seen while driving a car. Never.

CharlieKellyKingofTheRats > Chaos-cascade 04/19/2015 at 15:16

0

I guess in my city, traffic isn't like that. Bikes split lanes at the red light, then you pass the bikes again. It's a nightmare, but yes if the bike is actually faster than the cars, given traffic speed, I don't hate it.

dataPOG > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:18

0

I’m of the mindset of if you break a law that would net you a ticket in a car (run red, don’t stop for stop signs) you should get tickets, just like drivers. That the only way cut down on red light and stop sign runners. But what to stop them from giving false information? I think this is a situation where Darwinism needs to run it’s course.

mikecyc72usa > HG_Pennypacker 04/19/2015 at 15:20

4

If so many drivers want us off the roads, why haven’t bikes been outlawed? How do you feel about runners and other non cars along a road? Too bad you resort to name calling. I can only imagine your level of courtesy to cyclists on the road.

There are entitled cyclists, and entitled drivers. Both need to readjust their attitudes.

mikecyc72usa > LoremIpsum010101 04/19/2015 at 15:22

1

Where I’m from and live now lanesplitting is illegal. I’ve seen several accidents where the lanesplitter didn’t come out of it ok.

mikecyc72usa > R W 04/19/2015 at 15:26

5

If possible, but when traffic is heavy, and I’m rolling along at ~30 mph why can’t a driver stay behind me? The speed limit is 30, so what’s the big deal?

Fujimo > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:27

2

That guy is the reason we will always need to be diligent and defensively aware of our surroundings while riding. There’s no reasoning with “him”. We can try to wave him by, but he likes to kick dogs so he’s gonna likely spit, slap, curse or cut us off. No matter what we do...

LoremIpsum010101 > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:29

2

I may just be a CA thing; cars expect it here, and in dense urban cities, bicycles travel at car speed, if not faster, anyways (see: Market Street, San Francisco).

You are right about faster surface streets, though; I just moved to LA, and it is a whole different biking culture here!

mikecyc72usa > RodR 04/19/2015 at 15:29

0

I worked at BSS for 5 years, we likely know lots of the same people.

HG_Pennypacker > ThePinnacle 04/19/2015 at 15:30

1

Oh yes, of course, all these roads all over the country, all equally the width of either one or two cars, were built for bikes! I can’t believe they poured all that extra asphalt and concrete! LOL.

mikecyc72usa > dannymac63 04/19/2015 at 15:30

0

So you have problems with races on public roads or that people ride on public roads for fitness?

HG_Pennypacker > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:32

1

My attitude towards cyclists is to roll my eyes and see them as one huge, unnecessary distraction. Why don’t you guys go into the mountains or have your own bike trails built? And a grown man in spandex pedaling his bike is a geek as far as I can see. Sorry if that hurts you.

Fujimo > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:32

1

I use them during the day! Anything i can do to be seen by the drivers... Bright helmet... I just assume drivers are out to get me.

Alternatively, because the drivers can see me, they often are courteous... But i know it will only take one to seek me out, because they can see me.

Paul-AB > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:35

1

Not that is a consolation, but those people treating cyclists as bad as you state, do that to all traffic around them. The sense of invulnerability, entitlement, and road rage is probably just amplified cause you’re on a bicycle, probably combined with an antipathy towards bikers, too.

Me personally, I share the road, but there’s just a certain number of people who that tiny bit of distance, and anonymity behind a steering wheel turns them into a straight sociopath. Or they already are.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > AntiLag 04/19/2015 at 15:36

2

Yep... those are the annoying Lance-Armstrong-wannabees... even when I’m riding my bicycle, I find them to be annoying, self-centered, obnoxious and pretentious.

When I ride my bike to work and other places, I don’t have the ‘problems’ other cyclists report. Of course I also don’t go out of my way to be a pain in the ass to motorists, try to ride in a predictable fashion and ride in such a way that *minimizes* inconvenience to others. And I also find that many car drivers are courteous to me.

505Turbeaux > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:38

3

All good with me

ThePinnacle > HG_Pennypacker 04/19/2015 at 15:50

3

Talking about grown men

Still worried about “looking cool”

LoL. I’d love to see what your lifestyle is like.

WarShrike > Greasemonkey 04/19/2015 at 15:50

2

You can’t run the stop signs, this is madness.

Madness? Madness!? This! IS! STRAVAAAAAAAA!

citysquid > word-is-bond 04/19/2015 at 15:53

3

No, riding in NYC is not different, there are rules of the road no matter where you are. I too am a car builder/enthusiast and bike rider/commuter in NYC for decades. When on a bike, you are operating a vehicle on a public road and have to behave the same as if you are in a car, so blasting through an intersection at your convenience is not respectful or serious. Even if I see no cars in any direction, I wait for the light to change, “why wouldn’t I?”

WarShrike > tapzz 04/19/2015 at 15:54

2

Yeah, that’s a nice protection since there are also bike lanes.

Most of the time here we just have to get in line and hope to not get squished by the SUV rumbling up behind us.

Trumbez > mikecyc72usa 04/19/2015 at 15:57

1

And Colnago collaborates with Ferrari to create this beauty

http://colnago.com/v1-r-2/?lang=e…

mikecyc72usa > HG_Pennypacker 04/19/2015 at 15:57

0

It doesn’t hurt me, it just is sad you are so close minded. How about you answer my questions I posed to you? Are men and women in running clothes dorks to you? Do you have a label for everyone who doesn’t fit your mold? As to history, bikes were around before the car, and the bike industry lobbied to get wagon trails improved. These improvements helped the fledgling auto industry.

ThePinnacle > HG_Pennypacker 04/19/2015 at 15:59

1

I’m not surprised reading is a problem for you.
Then again, you’re probably a product of public education where “everybody wins”.

mikecyc72usa > dataPOG 04/19/2015 at 16:00

0

In Austin you can get ticketed and cyclists do get ticketed. As to false info, why would anyone leave their home without ID?

mikecyc72usa > 505Turbeaux 04/19/2015 at 16:01

1

Having raced stage races I can tell you that is terrifying the first time as a rider.

HG_Pennypacker > ThePinnacle 04/19/2015 at 16:03

1

Not worried about “looking cool”. Just not looking like a a dork. You should try it. Which is probably why you’re never winning at life, huh?